Hi Dan,
I just wanted to send you something as I try (unsuccessfully so far) to get some sleep. I taught tonight, and one of the people in our small group has a coworker who seems to be another one of these funadmentalist evangelical nazis we have around here. She's all caught up in faith and works, and she's told this poor woman that she has to walk on crutches only because she doesn't have enough faith. Fortunately, God has given her enough sense to know this isn't true.
Of course, this all set me off in a rage. "Look. She's got it all reversed," I said. "Works are a symptom. That's all. If you've got the disease called faith, then your works are a sign that you have that disease."
I also got on my high horse about grace. As hard as it might be, I suggested maybe we needed to pray that since she thinks grace is something to strive for, to earn, that God just pull up the dump truck, bury her in more grace and blessing than anyone, no matter how big the ego, can possibly believe they can earn. Can God humble someone through His kindness? I think maybe he can, in megamegadoses.
------Good afternoon Dave,
Yep, just throw those crutches away and WALK. I've even seen it on TV. Now, I don't deny the process or procedure; but I don't know what it takes to receive that type of healing. This is one (of many) areas I haven't yet addressed in my walk.
"Lord, my elbow hurts; please fix it." Is that an okay prayer? Should He fix it? Why or why not; and who's to ask? I have to move carefully in this area due to my potential emotional state where Shelley is concerned. I pray for her in intercession as I know that she is flat afraid to pray in this area. I believe her concern is, "What if the answer is, 'No'?"... I was taught not to bother people and to do things for myself; and, unfortunately, this does carry over into my prayer life: "Don't ask God for candy when there are children starving in India." or the adult equivalent.
Where do you start with these questions (and these people). Is everything perfect in Ms. FEN's life? I know of people who would think that Shelley has MS because she did something wrong in God's eye (and probably one who would say that it was marrying me).
-----You raise several points. Sure, it's OK to ask for healing. And let's look at perspective here. You know God will heal it, one way or the other. She won't be walking on crutches in heaven. A "no" answer could also just be a "not yet--it's not My time."
We can ask for absolutely anything, so long as it's followed by a, "But not my will, but Yours." That way, in essence, we're saying, "Lord, if [x] is compatible with your will, please grant it; otherwise I defer to your better perspective and greater wisdom." Jesus even asked not to have to suffer and die. None of us have any burden that big. If Jesus can ask for that size-of-the-entire-universe thing, we can certainly ask for our little things.
We can look at Biblical examples. Jesus said a number of times to people, "Your faith has made you well." And He healed them. Yet did any of them have greater faith than Paul? When Paul asked that his thorn in the flesh be healed, God said no. Paul deferred to God's greater wisdom. Was God punishing Paul? I don't think so, and Paul didn't think so.
Does faith healing happen? Sure. Is lack of faith the reason for any continued ailment? There's no Biblical evidence to support that belief. In fact, I would say the opposite.
So, can Shelley ask for healing? You bet. Let's look in other terms. That's like asking God for a penny after Jesus just got done asking for $100 trillion. If God says "not yet," don't fret about it. Whatever His answer is, you can take great comfort that God wants the very best for her, just as He does for all 12 billion other people who have lived. And even though 12 billion people is more than we can possibly comprehend, God knows each and every one of them, watched every minute of their life---Psalm 121:8 says God cares about our coming and going. God cares about something as little as that? From down here, we can't see the significance of any ailment. God can.
If a healing can play some part in one of God's mighty works, he delights in that. How much would you like to see Shelley whole? Multiply that by infinity. But if God wants to accomplish something through that... There's no harm in asking either way. Remember, God's doing damage control here. If one person's suffering can somehow help 10 others, and that person can handle the suffering, which route do you think God will take?
Does any of this make sense? I think it makes sense to me.
Oh yes, one last thing. Jesus prayed a lot. Frequently it was for Himself. There's nothing wrong or selfish about praying for yourself. Jesus said, "Love your neighbor AS yourself," not "Love your neighbor better than yourself." I think there's wisdom in that. If we love ourselves and take care of ourselves, we have more to give others. We can therefore love more by striving to love our neighbor exactly as much as ourselves than we would by trying to love our neighbor more than ourselves.
Dave
----One more thing before I go, The line "My grace is sufficient for you" can mean several things. It probably means all of them.
My grace is SUFFICIENT for you: You don't need anything else.
MY GRACE is sufficient for you: "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me."
My grace is sufficient for YOU: Some people couldn't handle this, but you can.
So, if the answer does end up being no or not yet... Frankly, God is paying Shelley a compliment. Nice to get a compliment from He who cannot be impressed?
I hope all that helps. God doesn't want us to be timid, not with each other and not with Him.
Dave,
Other than Shelley, which I consider a 'given', my struggle with why people are afflicted tends to center around one man from our church. Barry is a year or two older than me, both in age and rebirth. We didn't know him before his salvation; we met him as he worked the pre-K class that our youngest attends on Sundays. What sparked with us was his ability with the little children; he obviously loved them and they knew it. It was only after we knew him through this venue that we realized that he had recently (within a year) lost a seventeen year old son to meningitis. The kid literally went to bed with a slight fever and didn't wake up. Barry's testimony stems from what became a time of decision for him. He could use the gun upstairs or turn to God. God won and Barry dedicated himself to helping with the children as part of his healing process. The children's director made the unprecedented move of allowing him to 'travel' with his kids as they pass from class to class; he started with the three-year olds and they are all still together in the kindergarten class this year.
Earlier this year, Barry advised us that he has cancer; it first showed in his liver but appears to have spread from his pancreas. He is in a lot of pain and the chemotherapy is quite literally killing him. If it weren't for his wife and his weekend kids, I doubt he would try to survive.
When I first heard of his cancer, I prayed for his healing. Generally, the words, "Thy will be done" were a part of my prayers. And while I could not and cannot know the "Why?", my only thought at the time was that God was using Barry as a message/lesson/testimony/test/example to all of us. Could good solid Christian faith overcome this? Were we to see/help with perseverance? What could his primary doctor do (also a member)? What about Sandy (his wife)? What about Robin, another cancer patient who may be a survivor if things hold?
That's what I had to work with. Couple that with Shelley and her MS (and ignore my damaged nerve that affects my left thumb and index finger) and I wasn't sure where to go with this.
Things became much clearer (through a glass, darkly) on the way to my mother's house on Father's day this year (editor's note: Dan's father was receiving CPR). My primary prayer on the way was, "Thy will be done." I cannot explain my level of peace during this time. I really did not even fall back on my professional persona at all (or at least I didn't think so. Medics develop a "professional disconnect" that allows them to work in situations that can best be described as pure pathos. Those who cannot, do not continue in the business. Those who do, often have trouble down the road). I released all of my hopes and fears to my Father in Heaven and allowed him to take care of me and my family during this time. The love bond definitely developed that day. I can only say "Thanks" for sparing us from certain pains that day.
I hadn't thought things through much further until the issue of the FEN's comment came up. I really didn't want to open up that potential wound, but the day I stand mute when something is put up for comment...
Suffice to say that your words, and His Word as presented by you are very welcome to me. Certainly, they've confirmed my thoughts to date and have given me a more complete perspective. While I know that I'll have more questions on this series, I have enough now to at least be able to hold a conversation instead of just shrugging my shoulders and saying, "I dunno."
If only I knew where my last-remaining copy of my debut column in my college newspaper went... (I'll have to hit the library next time I'm in Columbia). In January 1994 I introduced myself to campus by telling the story of Mark, a family friend. I met Mark in 1983. He'd been off to seminary to study to be a priest (he's Catholic); realized while he was there that the priesthood wasn't his calling after all, and was back home persuing his other loves (plants and antiques) at age 22 when he fell ill. Doctors told him he had terminal cancer and gave him six months to live.
He didn't confide in his family. He quietly made all of the arrangements himself, and as he picked out his coffin, he told himself, "There is no way in hell they are going to put me in that box." That was his turning point. He went to his family, told them what was going on, told them not to worry about it because everything was arranged and paid for, then left his fate to his faith and his fight. He played some mind games, keeping trinkets around to keep his mind on what he was fighting, and he prayed.
He left town in 1986, because he was tired of getting the "aren't you supposed to be dead?" look from everybody whenever he went somewhere. Later that year, doctors told him he was in remission. He'd fought, the cancer had come back, he fought, it came back, he fought, and finally he just outlasted the cancer. It wore out first, I guess.
It's been about five years since I talked last to Mark, and I didn't think at the time to ask him the specifics of his prayer life, but I don't think the specifics matter all that much. There are survivors, even against insurmountable odds.
Mark attributed his survival to the mind games and the faith (and I suspect the former helped the latter).
Only God knows if He intends to call Barry home or if He intends to heal him and keep him in the game a while longer. And, frankly, Barry might have some say in the matter. Certainly, if Barry fights in order to spend another day serving children in His name, God won't hold it against him. I don't know if he's the guy with the two talents or the four talents, but he's certainly not the guy with one talent who went and buried it in a field.I'm not sure that I've hit all the questions, but they bear repeating anyway:
Could good solid Christian faith overcome this?
Yes. But it's not really the faith that does the work; it's the object of the faith. That's nice. To focus on faith is to shift the focus to us, when it really needs to be on God. After healing, Jesus often said, "Your faith has made you well." But in one instance, He said, "Go and tell everyone everything God has done for you."
What could his primary doctor do (also a member)?
Encourage, and do his job. James 5:13-18 (one of my favorite sections of scripture, esp. 14-16) comes to mind. My old congregation takes this verse literally. Whether it's intended to be taken literally, or whether James is just saying, "Pray and take your medicine," is hard to say--in those days, oil was used both ceremonially and as medicine. It certainly doesn't hurt to interpret the verse both ways, because God knows your intentions. This "prescription" from James has worked at least once to my knowledge here.
Not taking your medicine and just praying for healing doesn't work very often; it seems to me like you're backing God into a corner by doing that. "God, if you don't heal me, I'll die."
What about Sandy (his wife)? What about Robin, another cancer patient who may be a survivor if things hold?
They can offer unique perspectives of their own. Sandy knows him better than anyone else does; her words may hit him harder and more effectively than anyone else's because of this. Robin also has a unique perspective, can relate better than anyone else to what Barry is going through. Paul advises us to share one another's burdens; here's someone Barry presumably trusts better than anyone other than God, and someone else who knows the way.
From my distant perspective, I see reason to hope. Faith, humility, and love are a potent combination, and I see no shortage of it there.
Dave